Rage...

[etumukutenyak]

"Waterboarding, the near-drowning technique that top Obama administration officials have described as illegal torture, was used by C.I.A. interrogators 183 times on one prisoner from Al Qaeda and 83 times on another, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum."

New York Times

Now tell me that the CIA interrogators were not torturing people.

They are no better than the Khmer Rouge, the Genocidaires, the Civil Cooperation Bureau of SA, the Army in Chile under Pinochet Ugarte, and Argentina during the Dirty War. None of them deserve better than what came out of the Tokyo and Nuremberg Trials.

If they're afraid of being hauled into court and tried on criminal charges here or anywhere in the world, it's because "the guilty flee where no man feareth".

Let them run. Let the world know that America is no better that Kampuchea, Rwanda, Northern Ireland, apartheid-ridden South Africa, Chile or Argentina, Guatemala, Japan, Nazi Germany, and on and on.

We allowed this to happen. We allowed ourselves to be stampeded into illegal acts, into unethical behavior, all because of our fear over "another 9/11" -- but now we've created the justification for the terrorists to continue attacking us, because we too committed atrocities. We didn't fight back against our enemies -- we became our own worst enemy. Oh, sure, no one intended to allow torture to be committed by Americans, but the road to hell is paved with those good intentions.

This is why -- above all -- we must remember that our Founders believed in a rule of law, not of men. If only the Bush administration had followed the law instead of allowing strong personalities to overrule ethical and moral behavior!

I am sickened and saddened to think that torturers in the name of America proceeded to abuse prisoners in absolutely despicable ways. I want them named, shamed, shunned and disgraced.

And I want an end to this pointless bickering; of "protecting Americans" by committing unethical acts and blaming others for them. Enough.

You cannot protect everyone all the time. Life is risky. Life has a 100% fatality rate. Stop giving up freedoms in the name of fighting terrorism!

Comments

[i-calql8.livejournal.com]

I've been listening to this story as it develops. A few trains of thought emerged

1. No one from the pro-torture camp has convinced me that torture works. I've never believed it has and it amazes me there are people who do.

2. Then we have the chop logic that if I don't condone torture, I want terrorists to succeed, and therefore, I am not a good American. Uh huh. Yeah.

3. The sad part is that all the Bush cronies will get off scot-free. Why? They're Americans. For some reason, that weeks to give people the mistaken assumption whatever they do is somehow okay. And the rest of the world will grudgingly accept it. *sigh* One more reason for the world to hate the U.S.

One amusement this week was one of the radio right-wing gasbags called Obama's trip to Europe as ' The Apology Tour ' Um, he's apologizing for that dunderhead that's run the country into the ground for eight year. I won't even go into what pretty much comes down to 'my candidate didn't win, so we're gonna ruin your candidate's term of office.' Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh...

/rant

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Other than Pearl Harbor, our country has never had a major attack on any city. The Oklahoma City bombing was the closest, and that was our very own home-grown American extremist, and by golly, he did things the Amurrican Way! What's more American than a van full of fertilizer? Oh, true, the first World Trade Center attack involved the same thing, but hey -- only 6 people died, lots of smoke was generated, and the parking garage had to be rebuilt.

Having planes hijacked, and flown directly into office towers is a horrifying concept. Because of that attack, and the poor leadership of Shrub, we went into a country-wide spasm of rage against the Other that lasted for years. I remember seeing people on listservs and in chat rooms that were absolutely incandescent with rage, and were spewing their hatred against anyone who wasn't Pure Amurrican (i.e., white, Anglo-Saxon, hetero, Christian...Republican?). Yes, anyone who stood up to this rage was labeled anti-Amurrican and spewed at as well. False logic, born out of ignorance and rage.

The Bush cronies are less likely to get off scot-free this time, I think. Why else release those memos? That had a lot of people re-enraged, this time on the opposite side of the fence. After all, what could they have possibly learned in the 183rd session of waterboarding that they didn't get on the 1st or 2nd? (Nothing at all, that's what.) Many people have pointed out that the failure to prosecute Nixon led indirectly to Cheney's grab for power, and that is one of the major reasons for our country's illegal, immoral, and unethical behavior over the past 8 years.

That, and Shrub's complete, utter lack of responsible leadership. I know people who claimed he was smart because he'd gone to Yale. I laughed then, because I went to school with people who got into Yale on their own academic credentials, and with people who came from old rich families who got in as legacy candidates like Bush. There's no comparison.

Leadership sets the tone for the entire government. Bush allowed corruption and venality to reign free for 8 years. We'll be a lifetime sorting this out, just as we did after Nixon.

[serge-lj.livejournal.com]

The Founding Fathers would be so ashamed. Hopefully the country has learned its lesson. It probably will for about one decade, like it did after Watergate, then it'll forget, and will bring a Reagan creep to power. I'll be quite happy to be wrong, mind you.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[lwj2.livejournal.com]

You may wish to take a look at what a military interrogator has to say on the subject.

http://pecunium.livejournal.com/398591.html

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

I've already seen Terry's comments here and on Making Light.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

And worse, there's still going to be no accountability

The cost of this repells - torturing is vile in and of itself and we no reason to ahte ti beyond it is what it is - but the damage it has done to opur reputation and moral high ground? Beyond the pale.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

It will be a long time before the US can be proud of itself again.